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gharr



Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Scale creation ideas Reply with quote

Since we all have access to the web, we all have access to lots and lots of wow databases.

I've come across a few items which don't match up too well with my scale, but are clearly better items.

This was a thought I had for determining scale values - beyond the current well I think this item is the most important so it gets X, these two items are not as important so they both get Y, and this is a rare stat so I'll rate is as Z which is higher than X.

Basically my thought was to put together a 'dream set' of midrange gear - be it a dungeon set, a modified collection of gear many people use to fill a certain role, etc. Add up the stats that collection of items gives you, set it equal to a value (I like using 100) and then extrapolate what the stats are actually worth.

Now this can lead to 5 or 6 variable equations - which if you're not a math specialist and aren't currently in college with a professor to tap for help/suggestions, are fairly daunting.


For example. I've decided that the 'purple judgement set' makes a nice 'dream set' of gear for me to strive for as a holy paladin.

Armor: 6641
Stamina: 192
Intellect: 206
Healing: 442
MP5: 41
Spell Crit: 79

Those are the relative stat totals from that set.
So I came up with the following equation:
6641x + 192y + 206z + 442a + 41b + 79c = 100

I looked at it and thought .. well this is going to rate armor really high in importance, and not put enough value on MP5 so I dropped armor out of the equation and decided that MP5 was almost as important as +healing so I multiplied it by 10 so it was valued just a little less.

This is the final equation I have been working with:
192y + 206z + 442a + 410b + 79c = 100

and since I've been out of college for a few years and it's been even longer since I attempted any serious math beyond balancing my checkbook .. I've been stuck at this point all weekend.


So .. any thoughts? Solutions?

Seriously, what do you all think of the idea of setting a particular gear collection goal to determine your rankings of stats in Pawn?

And if anyone has any tips on how to get the correct values for y,z,a,b and c; I'm all ears.
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crGutty



Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while since university for me, but I'm thinking this may work. You've already got a set of the values you consider important. We can use this as a base from which to measure every other item by inverting the values (1/x).

So an item with one point of Stamina = 0.52% of your target (the Judgment Set). Since the actual numeric value of our scale is irrelevant (we need only maintain the relative differences between the stats), we'll use the percentage rather than the number. The reason is that we'd prefer the real Judgment Set to be shown as having the value 100 instead of 1.

This is how I came up with this scale, although it doesn't include anything to do with other relevant stats (like sockets), it will give you an item's value relative to the Judgement set:

Code:
( Pawn: v1: "vs Judgment Set": Armor=0.015, Stamina=0.52, Intellect=0.485, Healing=0.226, Mp5=2.439, SpellCritRating=1.265 )


Maths are fun!
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Vger
Pawn Mod Creator


Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 120
Location: Azjol-Nerub (US)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an interesting way to do it... hadn't thought of that. I think that's a pretty good approach, though the drawback that you discovered (regarding armor) is that it works best when the set you're looking for is "perfect" -- it doesn't have any stats you don't care about, and it doesn't have too much of stats you don't care about too much (like armor). But, short of complicated item models in Excel, it seems like a great method of finding, at the very least, starting values.

The tricky part to come is deciding how to value stats that aren't on the list. What about agility? Would you rather have a weapon with 21 intellect and 0 agility, or 20 intellect and 20 agility? Even though I rarely need agility when healing, I'd choose the latter, just in case I'm 5-manning it and pull heal aggro. It's really tough coming up with the right tradeoff there. Sockets are easier, though: here's what I'd do in your situation. Find a few easily-obtainable green- or blue-quality BoE auction house gems for each color. What Pawn value would they get? You can either look at them in the AH, or just do the multiplication manually. Find the highest Pawn value for each color, and then value your sockets at that. For example, let's say that your best blue gem was Solid Star of Elune, +12 stamina. (Not saying it is; it's just a really popular blue-quality blue gem.) So, your value for BlueSocket should be 6.24 (.52 * 12), since if you got a good piece of gear, that's the gem that you would buy to put in it. (Again, just an example.)

(I'm happy to talk further on the subject; you may be better off reaching me on the IncGamers Pawn comments page at http://wowui.incgamers.com/?p=mod&m=3999 if you want a timely response. You can see how quickly I get back to people on this board. :))
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Rykolyn



Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love this idea as well, In fact I plan to use similiar, But what I'm doing, is using the set of stats I want, And looking for the maximum ever seen on an item.

For ease of use, let's say I play a class that all I want is AGI and STAM

And any item has various stats on it, let's say up to 50, and nothing's been seen over that.

Well, I also think that AGI is worth more than STAM, for whatever reason, (Again, just for theory, I don't play anything like that, haha.)

So AGI is 75% and STAM is 25%, for example,

Obviously, the best item I could find would be something that added 50 to both, but using numbers that gave the weight as above, (75/25) The item would not be weighted correctly. so, personally, what I would do, is use two scales, one for AGI, and one for STAM, both would have 2 as the scale, but you could then see both weighted on the pawn tooltips. As a fraction of 100 depending on how much it had of that stat.

Kind of a lazy approach really, but it allows for easier weighing. I'm sure someone more mathmatically inclined could give the proper weight to both numbers to be weighted correctly, but as far as I know, it would never come out to "100" correctly, since if you had 50 on both, the weights would probably over value the number past 100, which isn't a problem, (Bigger is better, obviously) but you lose that "100%" feel.

Food for thought, as well.

Sockets obviously aren't worthless, but when giving them a value, you obviously have to take your particular build in mind, because, let's say a shadowpriest was using +dam gems only, an item with one socket, as well as a base of +10 damage, may or may not be the same weight as an item with no sockets, and a base of +15 damage, yes?
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Parata



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just started using Rawr to get Scale values:

http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr

Rawr does a nice simulation with the gear and stats of your character which it loads from the Armory (I think all locales for armories are supported)

In the right window of Rawr you will see gear-rankings. Select the "Chart:" dropdown menu and select "Relative Stat Values". Plug these values into Pawn and you got a set customized to your characters current gear.

Ideally you should generate new numbers each time you made an upgrade, or at least a major upgrade.
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